MBW’s Inspiring Girls sequence profiles feminine executives who’ve risen through the ranks of the enterprise, highlighting their profession journey – from their skilled breakthrough to the senior tasks they now fulfil. Inspiring Girls is supported by Ingrooves.

Again within the late Nineties, Vickie Nauman, then working in radio in Seattle, began studying a couple of controversial new music service known as Napster.

The service was being slated for permitting individuals to steal music. Intrigued, she sat down at her Dell laptop computer with its 14.4 modem and (slowly) downloaded the Napster consumer to see what all of the fuss was about.

“I used to be scrolling via the interface, thousands and thousands of individuals and each music that was ever created. My first thought was, ‘That is going to be essentially the most unimaginable change that I’ll most likely see in my lifetime, by way of how all leisure content material goes on-line. I’ve to determine this out.’”

Nauman left her radio job to affix one of many first legally licensed companies, which was known as MusicNet — a JV between RealNetworks and the three main labels.

Whereas there, she realised how little she knew about know-how and made it her mission to embark on a steep studying curve. Nauman was at MusicNet for lower than a 12 months (“it was a extremely harsh working atmosphere”), earlier than she returned to radio at KEXP to assist construct out its on-line streaming providing.

There, she learnt from groups from Microsoft and the College of Washington and went deep into the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Subsequent cease was to do an MBA in enterprise and innovation, whereas consulting on the facet.

Since then, Nauman has expanded her expertise and perspective by working at Sonos (World Alliance Supervisor) and 7digital (US President), earlier than establishing her personal consulting and advising firm, CrossBorderWorks.

At this time, her work focuses on the alternatives in Web3 and serving to to bridge the hole between the music and video games industries. She additionally works with music and tech corporations on technique, merchandise, rights and information, licensing, partnerships and development.

Right here, we chat to Nauman in regards to the subsequent evolution after on-demand streaming, essentially the most thrilling alternatives in Web3, why TikTok is perhaps on its approach out, and rather more in addition to.

How has your perspective on the digital evolution developed since that first introduction to Napster and the way thrilling THAT idea felt TO you?

There are undoubtedly flaws within the on-demand streaming and UGC enterprise fashions, they don’t work for everybody. I’ve modelled these companies each approach conceivable and it’s arduous to make them succeed in the event you’re the one which’s placing on the service. I divide artists into this massive pyramid and on the very prime, there’s the 1%. They’ve at all times finished properly, they at all times will do properly, it doesn’t matter what mannequin it’s. On the backside, there’s most likely about 40% hobbyists, individuals who simply need to put their music out. It’s that center layer of unbiased artists, which is the place my fandom is available in — artists on unbiased labels who’re most likely rather less pop — who the enterprise fashions don’t work very properly for.

The streaming fashions that we now have now which are all you possibly can eat for $9.99 per thirty days, or round that worth level, have been created emigrate individuals off of P2P. For individuals who purchased one CD a 12 months, it’s a stretch, however for individuals who purchased 20 CDs a month, we’ve eliminated that skill to pay and specific their love of music past $120 to $150 a 12 months. The streaming fashions want a refresh and a few of that may come from Web3. A few of it would come from the companies themselves as they proceed to attempt to differentiate.

How would you prefer to see them refreshed?

I’ve labored inside these corporations — I understand how know-how and rights administration works. It’s actually, actually arduous when you will have an present mannequin, like an on-demand streaming and royalty mannequin with 1000’s of rights holders adhering to it, to vary it after it’s already been finished.

We at all times discuss the way you divide the pie and lots of people are advocating for modifications within the fashions of the prevailing companies. I really feel like that ship has sailed. If you wish to add extra fruit and fewer sugar to a pie, you do it originally earlier than you bake it. You don’t bake the pie after which determine afterwards that it’s essential to change the ingredient make-up.

I’m issues like Web3 and rising applied sciences that may actually change the panorama. After I speak in regards to the individuals who used to purchase 20 CDs a month, we’ve by no means been capable of seize that worth, besides in reside music. What excites me about this subsequent iteration of companies is issues which are scarce and collectible within the NFT and Web3 world. That may be experiential issues within the metaverse, it may be in accumulating, it may be interactive fan golf equipment.

“I consider on-demand streaming like radio. It really works for some individuals and it doesn’t work for others, however you possibly can’t keep away from having your music on there.”

I consider on-demand streaming like radio now — it’s the baseline for the remainder of our digital economic system. It really works for some individuals and it doesn’t work for others, however you possibly can’t keep away from having your music on there. It’s sort of the identical as terrestrial radio, which labored from a promotional standpoint however lots of people by no means acquired paid. Now it’s about discovering methods to construct extra excessive worth items that customers and followers will purchase that sit on prime of and above on-demand streaming.

The place are essentially the most thrilling improvements within the Web3 house for music?

I’m bullish in regards to the experiential facet and what we’re seeing with live shows in Roblox or Fortnite. We haven’t seen the true potential of individuals with the ability to collect globally in digital worlds, for music and for reside music, and I believe that this will likely be a large spectrum of issues. Proper now, we now have avatars that we are able to see by logging into Roblox or Fortnite however this may evolve into hyperreal digital worlds that we are able to’t even think about but. With the experiential facet of it, there’s huge potential there for us to reimagine what a live performance and an expertise seems to be like between followers and artists on-line.

NFTs is a little bit of a grimy phrase proper now due to the crypto fallout however I believe that’s very separate from this. NFTs and the decentralised tech that underpins it’ll evolve into a extremely extensive mixture of interactive fan golf equipment. Music is so tribal anyway and we’ve constructed these big tents with streaming companies. I like the thought of small tents for music and getting extra individuals into the small artist-based and token-based communities. I believe there’s a totally totally different approach of interacting with followers, and for artists and followers to work together, and for followers to be the material of a neighborhood in Web3. All of these items have the potential for being high-value scarce items that we misplaced on this iteration of the web.

When blockchain and decentralised know-how first began being mentioned within the music enterprise a very good few years in the past, it was all about its skill to upend the established order and take away the necessity for a number of the main music corporations or have them relinquish some management. Do you see that taking place? Or do you assume it has a totally totally different use?

I by no means believed that and I’ve been a blockchain fanatic for the reason that starting. There was that period when there have been individuals going all world wide, doing speeches saying, ‘That is the tip of labels and publishers, every little thing’s going to be on the blockchain.’ It’s ridiculous. That isn’t going to occur. This occurs each time there’s new know-how. It occurred with AI, reside streaming, on-demand streaming and it occurred with digital distribution 20 years in the past. When distribution turned digital, everybody was speaking about how there was no want for labels and publishers.

“individuals have been saying, ‘That is the tip of labels and publishers, every little thing’s going to be on the blockchain.’ It’s ridiculous. That isn’t going to occur.”

I’ve at all times believed that the blockchain has an enormous quantity of potential to assist us resolve issues round rights and to replicate who owns what, transparently. There’s been resistance to transparency from the numerous conventional labels and publishers however as blockchain applied sciences evolve, it’s only a totally different sort of database that I believe we may use to assist resolve that downside. What frequently occurs is, metadata leaves labels and publishers, it goes out into the ecosystem and when it comes again to the labels and publishers, it’s flawed. Then, a number of the labels and publishers are additionally submitting incorrect info into the ecosystem. So we now have one thing that’s taking place on this actually sophisticated tangle that’s creating issues round music information.

The opposite use case for decentralised know-how is that this skill to make use of good contracts. In these worlds of collectibles and scarce items between followers and artists, they don’t essentially must have anybody besides a wise contract and a blockchain to replicate what they might personal, after which the flexibility to promote it and earn money off of it. And for the artists to take part within the secondary sale, whether or not it’s entry to a fan membership, or a collectible good, entry to tickets or some kind of different funding in fractionalising rights. All of these items are capable of be finished actually elegantly with the usage of blockchain.

What are the most important challenges within the music and tech world at present?

From a rights and rights administration standpoint, there’s nonetheless an inordinate variety of issues that should be solved. There’s cash that may’t be settled, that’s collected and firms can’t determine find out how to marry up the sound recording to the publishing to know who to pay out. There’s most likely a billion {dollars} a 12 months in tiny black containers everywhere in the world, together with big black containers just like the US mechanical rights.

I used to assume that was one thing one or two corporations may resolve and now I don’t consider that. I consider we want a whole lot of corporations to resolve it regionally and there must be new programs. Blockchain might help and centralised databases can even work.

I additionally assume there may be at all times an issue round getting new enterprise fashions to market. Each time we now have new know-how, whether or not it’s streaming or reside streaming, or now Web3, there are much more corporations that must get via a licensed funnel than there are individuals at labels and publishers, who’re the gatekeepers. That’s at all times a problem for innovation. Should you want rights to have the ability to mild a product up, you will have to have the ability to get these rights authorized by labels and publishers and there’s an infinite funnel that has to get shrunk all the way down to get via these gatekeepers.

I do numerous work in gaming and see no finish in sight to how music can profit from gaming. When you consider these two industries, music relies on friction and that funnel of getting numerous corporations in, who’s going to get rights, who isn’t and who can afford to pay for them. Gaming is about open entry and in-app monetisation. The largest problem for me, and that is the place I’m focusing a lot of my time and vitality, is getting these two industries to return collectively higher and create new enterprise fashions that may work between gaming and music.

Have you ever provide you with any new enterprise fashions? Or is that course of nonetheless within the early phases?

It’s nonetheless early phases. When you consider the prevailing fashions that we now have, we now have a suggestion of each piece of music, each piece of music ever created, both via UGC, social media or subscription platforms. No-one’s actually that anymore. I really feel like that ship has sailed and I don’t see metaverse corporations or gaming corporations who really feel the necessity to have that a lot music.

Most of them are being rather more curatorial, they’re pondering, ‘What’s the small quantity of music that I may have in my recreation? Who’re the artists that I’d prefer to have in my recreation?’ Then it turns into extra like synchronisation licensing, so that you’re getting into and doing partnerships for a handful of songs. Whenever you try this, you now not want tens of 1000’s of labels and publishers to comply with the identical mannequin.

Then you will have room to be revolutionary in the way you do a income share. What’s the mixture of an upfront payment versus a income share? Do you simply pay any individual upfront? Are there extra revolutionary methods to have the ability to do that? What Roblox is doing proper now with digital merchandise, I really feel is one thing that’s fully untapped for the broader music business. They don’t fairly see the chance but as a result of it’s largely artists which are creating the digital merch and collaborating in that.

“We’ve not even begun to know the potential for music with in-game, in-app purchases which are primarily based round engagement.”

With gaming, for years I used to be considered one of these individuals who would flag this to the business and say, ‘The gaming business is larger than music and movie mixed they usually make that cash by constructing participating and frictionless experiences’. The billions of {dollars} are largely being made via engagement round in-app buying. That doesn’t make sense to the music business as a result of the music business needs all their cash upfront. They’re very threat averse. We’ve not even begun to know the potential for music with these in-game, in-app purchases which are primarily based round engagement.

There’s speak of TikTok being banned within the US and there’s been dissatisfaction from main music corporations in regards to the stage of royalties it pays out. What’s your perspective on that platform?

I’ve lengthy felt that it’s a promotional platform that may raise streaming. I’ve additionally thought that it’s going to finish, and someday quickly. We noticed it with SoundCloud the place it saved rising organically, had numerous enterprise capital funds and didn’t actually have a licence mannequin with the business. When corporations are utilizing music, as soon as they attain a sure threshold and labels and publishers begin to perceive, ‘How is that this going to be worthwhile within the panorama? How is our music getting used?’ These sorts of free relationships, the place there’s perhaps no reporting and no licence construction round it, they nearly at all times go away. I believe we’re originally of that with TikTok.

“I’ve lengthy felt that [tiktok is] a promotional platform that may raise streaming. I’ve additionally thought that it’s going to finish, and someday quickly.”

You’re an advocate for extra feminine leaders and numerous leaders typically within the tech and startup house. What are the hurdles that stay in place?

If you’re a first-time founder, you will have a tougher climb than you probably have based an organization earlier than. A part of [the reason for a lack of diversity] is that numerous first-time founders are ladies and other people of color and they also might have a tougher time elevating cash. Fundraising is so important to this and I’ve seen over time such a marked distinction between first-time founders and founders who’ve finished one thing earlier than. Getting extra individuals of color and girls into startups usually, so that they’re uncovered to it, goes to provide them the next chance of success to be a founder.

The opposite actually tough statistic is that funding for corporations which are based by ladies has really gone down. It doesn’t really feel like we’re making sufficient progress. It’s not dissimilar to once I discuss extra about ladies attempting to get jobs in know-how corporations or as senior stage executives and other people are likely to say, ‘Does this girl have the expertise that we want?’ Should you evaluate her to a person, you would possibly say, ‘Nicely, he seems to be extra like me, he’s acquired extra expertise that’s just like mine and so I’m extra comfy with him.’ It does create a homogenous workforce. Folks have to start out seeing that in the event you get ladies and other people of color across the desk, your merchandise are most likely going to be higher. You’re going to have totally different views and totally different understandings of the panorama.

what do you want you’d identified originally of your profession that you understand now?

In the beginning of my profession, I didn’t fully perceive that the one approach {that a} girl, particularly, goes to get something, is in the event you ask for it and, in some circumstances, demand it. I began out at Procter & Gamble, proper out of faculty. They stated, ‘Should you do that, that is the way you climb the ladder. Right here’s the way you earn more money, right here’s how all of this works.’ I took that as a given. It wasn’t till most likely 10 years into my profession, once I did an MBA, began getting uncovered to totally different sorts of corporations and all types of various individuals, that I in a short time realised there’s extra money and extra methods of getting expertise and into positions of energy. Now, I perceive. If I didn’t advocate, typically demanded, and made a case for myself, I wouldn’t have something proper now. If I had simply gone with the circulate and brought no matter individuals have been prepared to provide me, I might don’t have anything.

“If I didn’t advocate for myself, I wouldn’t have something proper now.”

Additionally, I’ve give up each single job I’ve ever had with out one other job to go to. After I was working full time in corporations, I’d get to some extent the place I’m simply finished. I’m not studying anymore, this isn’t working anymore, I would like one thing new and I would like a palate cleanser. I do know that my mind works in another way to individuals who can go away one firm on Friday and begin a brand new one on Monday. I’ve by no means ever had the urge for food to try this.

I believe we’re coming into into an period during which work goes to essentially change by including AI into the combination and a brand new era that thinks in another way. I really feel like there’s room for individuals to carve out their very own path. For a few years once I was so keen on know-how and was doing tasks in China, an MBA programme and dealing for these uncommon music know-how corporations, there have been many individuals who have been like, ‘Why are you doing that? Why don’t you simply go work for Microsoft or Google? Why are you doing all these bizarre issues?’

I didn’t need to try this as a result of I do know that once I go and work for an enormous firm, the overwhelming majority of what you be taught is how that firm works. I’ve such an enormous urge for food for studying issues that I need to and my profession path has at all times made sense to me. It’s been like, ‘Okay, I need to study streaming and digital and I’m going to try this at KEXP. I need to additional my schooling so I’m going to do an MBA. I need to study {hardware}, software program, content material integration and I’m going to try this at Sonos. I need to be taught in regards to the ecosystem and the back-end programs of music, so I’m going to try this at 7digital’.

When taking over jobs and even new tasks typically, I ask, ‘What am I going to be taught?’ Not, ‘I may be grateful to you for hiring me’ it’s, ‘How are you going to provide me new expertise? How are you going to provide me new information?’ If I can’t reply that, if it’s simply one other job or one other challenge, it’s approach much less fascinating to me.

It’s humorous as a result of the identical individuals who used to ask why I didn’t simply go and work for Microsoft or Google, now say issues to me like, ‘How have you learnt a lot? How did you achieve all this expertise and all this data?’ I really feel prefer it’s as a result of I didn’t go to work for a corporation like that. I don’t begrudge anybody who does work for these massive corporations as a result of they are often phenomenal methods to advance careers, earn money, get inventory choices and perceive find out how to navigate an enormous company atmosphere. But it surely isn’t the one method to work.

MBW’s Inspiring Girls sequence profiles feminine executives who’ve risen through the ranks of the enterprise, highlighting their profession journey – from their skilled breakthrough to the senior tasks they now fulfil. Inspiring Girls is supported by Ingrooves.Music Enterprise Worldwide